Filed under: Concept Cars, Hybrids/Alternative, Green, GM
Competitors pushing GM to bring fuel cell vehicles before 2010 deadline
General Motors has touted its plans to have a fuel-cell vehicle available for public consumption by 2010 for years. But according to Larry Burns, head of research and planning at GM, the automaker needs to push such a vehicle to full development in as early as eighteen months (2008). This, despite the company’s current precarious financial situation.
The reason? Competition. Virtually every major automaker is accelerating their fuel-cell development programs. DaimlerChrysler and Toyota plan to debut their vehicles by 2012 and 2015. Honda is presently testing its FCV in California. States Burns, "We are not the only company driving hard to be first to market with fuel-cell vehicles. You can safely conclude that if we are going to be on market [in time] then a decision needs to be made in the next year to 18 months."
Burns believes there is sufficient funding in GM’s development budget for a new vehicle, but the automaker has yet to make a decision in which direction to go with its fuel-cell development.
[Source: FuelCellWorks.com]
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Reader Comments (Page 1 of 1)
distantbody 8:46PM (4/05/2006)
I am informed on the issue of fuel cell development. I can tell you that 2010 is PR grandstanding. You will not be able to buy a FCV, regardless of how much you have, in 2010.
Or 2011, 2012, 2013.
H2ICE is the only feasible technology within the next decade. I am glad to say that some well managed companies are pursuing it.
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distantbody 8:46PM (4/05/2006)
I am informed on the issue of fuel cell development. I can tell you that 2010 is PR grandstanding. You will not be able to buy a FCV, regardless of how much money you have, in 2010.
Or 2011, 2012, 2013.
H2ICE is the only feasible technology within the next decade. I am glad to say that some well managed companies are pursuing it.
Reply
Carpenter 9:17PM (4/05/2006)
I have a Popular Mechanics magazine I bought at an antique store dated August 1972.
On page 40, there is an article entitled "They plan to win with hydrogen" relating to how the UCLA team planned to win the 1972 Urban Vehicle Design Competition by putting a Ford 351 Cleveland engine in a 1972 AMC Gremlin X, and fuelling it with (compressed liquid) hydrogen with the exhaust used to heat the "thermos" like tank at the rear of the car.
The compression ratio was reduced, sodium filled valves fitted and exhaust gas recirculation used (in order to eliminate backfiring and preignition), then an Impco two barrel propane carburetor (modified slightly for the use of hydrogen) and viola!
A bunch of (university) students built a hydrogen fuelled ICE car in 1972! Pity I have no idea how the car did in the competition which was (to be) held on August 9 at the GM Proving Grounds in Milford, Mich.
So, BMW and Mazda have absolutely NO, nil, zip, nada - bragging rights, distantbody.
In fact, just exactly WHY did we not adopt hydrogen after the 1973 fuel crisis? The 1979 fuel crisis? The 1990....
Oh, never mind. We all know the answers. Mobil. Exxon. Citgo. BP. Shell. etc. etc. etc.
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Carpenter 9:35PM (4/05/2006)
Wow; maybe we will be able to fuel hydrogen cars (whether ICE or fuel cell) by 2010 after all?
Maybe we will see affordable fuel cells cars by 2010, since Honda only last week announced they'd produce the FCX by then. Likewise, Hyundai, which is only getting on the hybrid band-wagon this autumn finally.
Look at this, everyone.
http://www.evworld.com/view.cfm?section=communique&newsid=11571&url=
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storm 9:49PM (4/05/2006)
===Comment #2 by Carpenter===
=====In fact, just exactly WHY did we not adopt hydrogen after the 1973 fuel crisis? The 1979 fuel crisis? The 1990....
Oh, never mind. We all know the answers. Mobil. Exxon. Citgo. BP. Shell. etc. etc. etc.======
Incorrect Carpenter. NO ONE is going to pay 500% more for the privilege of driving a hydrogen vehicle.
Blaming Big Oil is a tired rant of the eniro-left. Hydrogen isn't economically feasible, plain and simple. If you are going to blame someone, blame the (gasp!) consumer.
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rem83 10:19PM (4/05/2006)
Frankly, an economy based on electrolysis is a bit ridiculous. Large companies with large R&D budgets should be developing methods of generating hydrogen (efficiently) before they devlop methods of consuming it. Currently hydrogen is no more energy efficient than a battery, just another means of storing electric charge, and you have to worry more about leakage.
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AES 11:21PM (4/05/2006)
There are two barriers -
#1. storage. this effects both fuel cells and ICE's, so distantbody's point about ICE vs. fuel cells is fairly moot. solid storage media (metal hydrides, metal ammines,etc) have a lot of potential though.
#2. the cost of catalysts in fuel cells. platinum is expensive.
In short, you may be able to buy a fuel cell vehicle in 2010, but the technology won't be optimized for quite some time after that.
rem83 - hydrogen is a renewable biofuel just like ethanol. it can be grown in algae. and if metal ammine storage (NH3 bonded to magnesium chloride) is successfully commercialized, we could be running our cars on what is essentially fish urine.
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biznut 1:28AM (4/06/2006)
Good ol' Larry (Burns) is making sure he does not get laid off. He manages the fuel cell program as everyone knows, and given GM's situation, it can get severely curtailed given that they've been at it for at least the last 6 years without producing anything close to a viable system for automotive purposes. No one can blame them - no one else has a solution there yet either.
Anyhow, so what does Dr. Burns do? Go out to the press and force his boss to commit on spending roughly a few hundred million, if not a whole billion, on a fuel-cell vehicle program for which there may not be a viable technology, infrastructure or market in that timeframe.
Seems like a career-limiting move.
These kinds of discussions are better left inside sealed conference rooms, rather than in the media!!
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St?ane Dumas 7:17AM (4/06/2006)
AES, I saw these 2 links about producing hydrogen from corn http://wired-vig.wired.com/news/technology/0,1282,62290,00.html
http://www.farmindustrynews.com/news/hydrogen-corn-economy/
if they can be produced from corn, maybe there might be a way to produce it from biomass or swichgrass
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Mad Scientist Matt 11:11AM (4/06/2006)
GM wants to have fuel cell cars in the showroom in 2008? Where would I be able to refuel it in 2008? A welding supply shop?
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